are you in the mood for a fandom discussion?

[chibichan]

I feel like writing an entry today, even though nothing new has happened. The only news I have is that I'm going to the physiotherapist today for my tight psoas muscles (which are so tight, they actually hurt). I know the session is going to be painful, but it'll make me feel better in the long run. So I'm half looking forward to it and half fearing it.

I've been taking 10mg of medicine for the past few days and I've been feeling okay, which is good. :D

If you like or even hate The Hunger Games, I found a couple of interesting articles about how Katniss appears to be a strong female character, but ultimately isn't. Here they are: one and two. Do read them in order, as the second article is a response to the comments on the first one.

I agree with both articles, but then again I never really liked Katniss and consider THG to be an okay series (completely ruined by the last book, imo) which is somewhat over-hyped. But I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts! :) I'm really in the mood for a bit of fandom discussion!

Comments

[kalloway]

I tried to read The Hunger Games, but I just couldn't - I didn't find Katniss likeable right off the bat and the between the clunky writing and the thought of following around a character I didn't like... I gave up about two chapters in.

[mysticalchild_isis]

Feminist Frequency had a couple of videos about the problematic elements of THG that were pretty interesting as well.

I definitely found the first book to be the strongest, and thought some of that strength to be undermined in the later books (especially Mockingjay), but in the end, I'd rather be giving teen girls Hunger Games as opposed to Twilight.

[northsky]

I read all three Hunger Games books possibly one or two years ago, and I honestly can't remember much of the books. That says enough for me, since I can recite more intricate plotlines of books I read much longer ago, I guess just because I enjoyed them more.

I never did like Katniss though, and I was the only person I knew who didn't like her.

[fujicori]

I'm in about the same position as northsky - in my case, they were tolerable to read once, but the kind of thing where I totally stop caring when I'm not reading it. It's a writing style that's easy to digest quickly, but the content isn't anything that stays with me.

As for the articles, I think I agree with them, but at the same time, it felt a little bit like reading one of my own old lit papers where I used to ignore some aspects of the text in support of my point, and I'm not sure why. I'll try and come back to the essays when I'm more awake.

[spectrier]

I liked (and still do like, although I haven't read them in a while) The Hunger Games but I won't deny that there's issues with it. There's some points in the linked articles that I think are stretching it though (the 'she's only a badass in front of men' point jumps out at me, I'm fairly sure there's women in the scene the author of the articles is complaining about and Katniss already shows she's a capable archer well before that, with and without an audience).

I'll also agree with you with the last book being kinda terrible, it's way too removed from the tone of the first two and there's a lot of things that seem really lazy (Prim being offed, Gale being effectively written out so that Katniss/Peeta could be a thing without issue). :T

I hope your physio goes well, by the way!

[crazed_delusion]

Ok to start off I did love the Hunger Games series.

But one I despise reading first person and two I never really like Katniss.

Despise that I quickly inhaled all 3 books in 3 days.

The first was the strongest to me by far. I think I even read that she had intended it to only be a one shot book. (I can find no prof of this now, but I believe the way the 2nd and 3rd read seem like it coud be true)

The Second to me seems rushed beyond belief, it could of been so much better imo had the games and the pre games been more drawn out.

The third seemed like it would never end and was just trying to wrap things up without knowing what the plan to wrap things up was. And killing people just for the sake of killing.

Plus the final book turned how she was such a strong character into a broken shell and I really did not like that, but that is more my desires for her life and says nothing on that being a perfectly viable option for it to end....did that make sense?

I would call myself a Hunger Games fan...but I can also easily see all the flaws and agree with them, but I still remain a fan of it.

[cakemage]

Those articles are hilarious! Did this author even read the goddamn books or watch the goddamn movie? And fucking Alice from Resident Evil is a better character than Katniss? I laughed so hard I scared the dogs. I think that while these articles have beginnings of good points here and there and that there are legitimate problems in THG, most of the arguments presented are seriously stretching it and the author seems to ignore any evidence counter to her pre-established opinion. Also, she comes across as really smug and defensive, especially in that second article, and her insistence that practically every single thing that happens to Katniss is a deus ex machina --even when the event makes sense within the context of the story-- gets old fast.

The Hunger Games isn't a perfect series, and Katniss is far from a perfect character, but I don't like how these articles act like her flaws and the flaws of setting makes THG "more sexist than a rap video" (which is itself is kind of a bigoted statement). It all kind of smacks of "stop liking what I don't like! I am more feminist than you!"

Spoilers for the whole series, so. Yeah.

[rosaxx50]

Thanks for the reads. They were interesting, though ultimately I disagreed with the author on many, many points. I agree that Katniss isn't a Strong Female Character (TM), but ultimately, though I don't consider the books feminist, I don't consider them sexist like the author seems to be saying. My reaction to reading certainly helped clarify my personal thoughts w/r/t the books.

As a note, I'm not a huge THG fan, or a huge Katniss fan, though I like her. These are just ~thoughts~ I have.

Damn I want to reply properly, but I can't get my thoughts into the right shape. I always thought, though, that the oft-but-not-always present "lack of agency" the author mentions was a very conscious choice on Suzanne Collins's part, not least because the men's manipulations are portrayed as Katniss's tragedy, not as her salvation, which is in itself a critique of robbing her of her agency. I don't think that portraying a woman completely free of patriarchal influence (which I suppose the men around Katniss are, in part, supposed to represent) would make her more feminist either--we operate in a world of limited agency.

The second article is rather telling IMO because very little of what the article brought up is what makes me think of Katniss as BAMF. Yes, I do think she's a deft hand in the arena, but I'm impressed that she fed her family for years by deliberately breaking protocol and hunting, with the skill to do it. I don't think her survival in the arena is down to luck either. Yes, Katniss spends time impressing men--but what about the sheer fact of her survival in THG arena, reading the forest, when she avoids fights in the first place, before she receives assistance? Isn't that a perfectly valid and smart decision in the first place?

And there are points which I do think are relevant to a feminist reading of THG that the article hasn't brought up--Johanna and Paylor to name two, but also, I think, Katniss's relationship with her mother. Katniss's relationship with her mother is one of the reasons I think Katniss isn't supposed to be a Strong Female Character (TM), but a Strong Character, Female - and a critique of the SFC type... and one of the reasons I actually love Mockingjay.

Before THG begins, Katniss is contemptuous of her mother for breaking down after their father's death, for failing to provide for her family. In the beginning and the end of MJ, Katniss breaks down herself, in two parallels to her mother's story--and it's understated, but she no longer judges her mother for not returning to District 12 with her, accepting that "her mother" is more than simply "her mother". I think that (1) this is a understanding on so many levels that strength/being strong has an arbitrary standard in the first place, (2) that Katniss's mother, in the end, isn't judged for moving outside her original narrative role is great, (3) Katniss's break down co-existing with her survival instincts is great, especially set against Johanna, who doesn't break even after torture except for one specific phobia.

ETA: I can't believe I forgot to add this. The author (of the article) claiming that Katniss never makes the decision to kill someone, never has the agency, is not quite true either -- what else is killing Alma Coin? I'm guessing the author's only considering the first book, but that seems narrow when there are three books, and the entire climax of the story centres around a moment where Katniss isn't being advised at all.

:/ this got longer than I expected. Never thought I would have actual thoughts about THG, but the articles prompted it.